Comments on: The West cares nothing for freedom and democracy

By: BOB

BOB — Mon, 30 Mar 2009 22:32:17 +0000

MattK why don't you answer Dash's question?
Where does your opinion sit on events in Thailand or Fiji, where the democratically elected government is thrown out by angry protestors or ethnic groups?
Also can we let parties participate in a democratic election when their sole wish is to end it?

By: Mattk

Mattk — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 10:01:20 +0000

I'm not saying the US is all the people of the Western world, but it's interesting to look at the US as they have the most leverage, but the governments of Europe don't work much different, just look at Germany's initiation of the NATO war on Serbia in 1999

By: Matt K

Matt K — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 10:00:10 +0000

Thanks for the comment Vishal. And you are right it isn't a big surprise, or at least shouldn't be. But if you read the mainstream media oped pages, and even the serious scholarship on this topic the whole thing is imbued with this sense of "manifest destiny" — that the US is a discontinuity in the power politics of history and has a grand vision for democracy blah. The same in the UK too.

Obvious point that Western countries (like all countries) are self-interested, but not obvious enough to stop a large percentage of the intelligensia believing in fairytales.

By: dash

dash — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 02:56:29 +0000

Although the US may refuse to acknowledge it, it is not representative of all "the West".

Are you saying that the "West's" (read US) government's and the US media's stance is that of all the people of the Western world? I don't think so.

Democracy does not represent everybody, but the majority, so I don't think you can conclude that "the West" doesn't respect or believe in democracy.

Where does your opinion sit on events in Thailand or Fiji, where the democratically elected government is thrown out by angry protestors or ethnic groups?

Sorry, I don't think I've expressed my opinion here very well… Will try to do better next time

Winston Churchill: It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.

By: Vishal

Vishal — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 02:23:52 +0000

A) I think liberalish circles question this assumption all the time, e.g. "The war is really about oil," etc. I don't think there is a liberal alive who thinks the wars were about Iraqi freedom or democracy.
B) What do you mean by the West? The Wall Street Journal? The Executive Branch of the US? Or do you think that literally everyone in Western governments does not give a damn about democracy and freedom?

Isn't it an obvious point that western countries (like all countries) are self-interested? And so Western leaders generally promote democracy because they think it is beneficial to their interests in the long run, and yet do not support democratically elected governments that are against their interests? Is it necessarily the case that if a country says, "we support democracy" it means "we support democracy in all its forms." I don't think any Western leader has ever said the latter.

I'm not at all saying that I think Western governments aren't hypocritical in their official stances on democracy. Far from it. I just don't really see the big surprise here.