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	<title>Comments on: Portrayal of Mumbai attackers as just &#8220;extremist Islamists&#8221; ignores wider context</title>
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		<title>By: Sumeru Salla</title>
		<link>http://www.thecommentfactory.com/portrayal-of-mumbai-attackers-as-just-extremists-islamists-ignores-wider-context-803/comment-page-1/#comment-285</link>
		<dc:creator>Sumeru Salla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 16:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecommentfactory.com/?p=803#comment-285</guid>
		<description>How can we forget all the hell break loose when we watched a minute-by-minute footage of this hideous crime in the name of religion…&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;One thing I’d like to add is the fact why Israelis were targeted at the Chabad (now Nariman) house. I think there could be a greater force in training/ funding these terrorists than Pakistan and Saudi… Has anyone questioned the Islamic Republic of Iran coz its president is always at loggerheads with Israel? Another reason could be that the terrorists wanted to trigger a world war by targeting every ethnic group from the world which is in limelight and according to them is “un-Islamic”…. Wind the clock back to 2006 when Ahmadenijad spoke about his beliefs that the motive of his revolution was to call the 12th Imam, the Mahdi two years from then, i.e, now. (simply a shameless and irrational reason to trigger WWIII)… &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Whatever be the reason, the Islamic countries on a political level have a lot of venom stored for non-Islamic groups. It could well be speculated that from here things get worse before they get better…</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How can we forget all the hell break loose when we watched a minute-by-minute footage of this hideous crime in the name of religion…</p>
<p>One thing I’d like to add is the fact why Israelis were targeted at the Chabad (now Nariman) house. I think there could be a greater force in training/ funding these terrorists than Pakistan and Saudi… Has anyone questioned the Islamic Republic of Iran coz its president is always at loggerheads with Israel? Another reason could be that the terrorists wanted to trigger a world war by targeting every ethnic group from the world which is in limelight and according to them is “un-Islamic”…. Wind the clock back to 2006 when Ahmadenijad spoke about his beliefs that the motive of his revolution was to call the 12th Imam, the Mahdi two years from then, i.e, now. (simply a shameless and irrational reason to trigger WWIII)… </p>
<p>Whatever be the reason, the Islamic countries on a political level have a lot of venom stored for non-Islamic groups. It could well be speculated that from here things get worse before they get better…</p>
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		<title>By: dizard</title>
		<link>http://www.thecommentfactory.com/portrayal-of-mumbai-attackers-as-just-extremists-islamists-ignores-wider-context-803/comment-page-1/#comment-241</link>
		<dc:creator>dizard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 05:58:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecommentfactory.com/?p=803#comment-241</guid>
		<description>The reason the terrorists, whoever they are/were, asked for American and British passport holders is due in part to the fact that terrorist acts, and enormous tsunamis, tend to get more international press if one of two criteria are met: 1) A mindboggling number of people get killed 2) Some Americans or Britons get killed. The &#039;&#039;wider context&#039;&#039; media organizations aren&#039;t pointing out is their obligations to the shareholders. Since the largest international news organizations (CNN, BBC) are based in rich English speaking countries with relatively wealthy English speaking viewers, companies want to advertise their products to these people. The story of &#039;&#039;Westerners&#039;&#039; beseiged abroad in exotic resorts is one that can keep paying the bills for multiple news cycles. Ironically enough, like the rest of us, GE has an electric bill to pay to light up that Christmas tree. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In other words, the fact that the terrorists singled out Americans and Britons was aimed at maximizing the media exposure of the attack. Remember that giant attack on Mumbai&#039;s trains in &#039;06? Well, if so, then you were paying attention. That attack didn&#039;t target American tourists, so American dollars in the pockets of American television viewers weren&#039;t at stake. As such, it didn&#039;t get half the air time the latest attack has.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;When it comes to the terminology used to describe the ideological motivations of the attackers, I am always irked when I see &#039;&#039;extremist&#039;&#039; and &#039;&#039;Islamic&#039;&#039; in tandem. What I see is a quiet assumption that faith in Islam leads naturally to violence and that for such violent impulses to be supressed faith in Islam itself must be moderated. I guess the word that bothers me the most is &#039;&#039;moderate Muslims&#039;&#039; or something to that effect. How often do you hear something like: &quot;Moderate Christian voters this year decided to put down their concerns over Barack Obama&#039;s positions on some issues and give him responsibility over an economy and two wars the Bush administration and the Republican party have mismanaged.&quot; Or something to that effect. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I will say though that there are people who will distort religions of all kinds to motivate people to violence. Islam is no exception. Since the 1980s, extreme religious movements all over the world have gained political power. Remember like, the last 30 years of American political history from Reagan to Rove? Yeah, that all happened. There are all sorts of explanations for this phenomenon. Millenarian hysterics, reaction to modernity and globalization, or cyclical quirks in political systems are all culprits. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Unfortunately, the lack of terms to properly describe all these things persists as a problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reason the terrorists, whoever they are/were, asked for American and British passport holders is due in part to the fact that terrorist acts, and enormous tsunamis, tend to get more international press if one of two criteria are met: 1) A mindboggling number of people get killed 2) Some Americans or Britons get killed. The &#39;&#39;wider context&#39;&#39; media organizations aren&#39;t pointing out is their obligations to the shareholders. Since the largest international news organizations (CNN, BBC) are based in rich English speaking countries with relatively wealthy English speaking viewers, companies want to advertise their products to these people. The story of &#39;&#39;Westerners&#39;&#39; beseiged abroad in exotic resorts is one that can keep paying the bills for multiple news cycles. Ironically enough, like the rest of us, GE has an electric bill to pay to light up that Christmas tree. </p>
<p>In other words, the fact that the terrorists singled out Americans and Britons was aimed at maximizing the media exposure of the attack. Remember that giant attack on Mumbai&#39;s trains in &#39;06? Well, if so, then you were paying attention. That attack didn&#39;t target American tourists, so American dollars in the pockets of American television viewers weren&#39;t at stake. As such, it didn&#39;t get half the air time the latest attack has.</p>
<p>When it comes to the terminology used to describe the ideological motivations of the attackers, I am always irked when I see &#39;&#39;extremist&#39;&#39; and &#39;&#39;Islamic&#39;&#39; in tandem. What I see is a quiet assumption that faith in Islam leads naturally to violence and that for such violent impulses to be supressed faith in Islam itself must be moderated. I guess the word that bothers me the most is &#39;&#39;moderate Muslims&#39;&#39; or something to that effect. How often do you hear something like: &#8220;Moderate Christian voters this year decided to put down their concerns over Barack Obama&#39;s positions on some issues and give him responsibility over an economy and two wars the Bush administration and the Republican party have mismanaged.&#8221; Or something to that effect. </p>
<p>I will say though that there are people who will distort religions of all kinds to motivate people to violence. Islam is no exception. Since the 1980s, extreme religious movements all over the world have gained political power. Remember like, the last 30 years of American political history from Reagan to Rove? Yeah, that all happened. There are all sorts of explanations for this phenomenon. Millenarian hysterics, reaction to modernity and globalization, or cyclical quirks in political systems are all culprits. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, the lack of terms to properly describe all these things persists as a problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Vishal</title>
		<link>http://www.thecommentfactory.com/portrayal-of-mumbai-attackers-as-just-extremists-islamists-ignores-wider-context-803/comment-page-1/#comment-226</link>
		<dc:creator>Vishal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 15:57:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecommentfactory.com/?p=803#comment-226</guid>
		<description>I agree with Gizem&#039;s basic point that labeling the attacks as &quot;Islamist extremist&quot; is very problematic, though I fear that her solution for (presumably western reporters) to place things in an even &quot;wider context&quot; would make things even worse. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Easy labeling serves to displace informed and critical judgment about the causes of such violence.  Matt, it is true that these attackers have called themselves the Deccan Mujahideen, but whenever a group of Muslims has a gripe about something and wants to make its message seem much larger than itself, it seems to me only natural that it will try to tie its message into a broader ideology, especially when the press and the so-called &quot;experts&quot; you speak of are so willing to accept that narrative in the place of real investigation.  Over the past few days, we&#039;ve heard that the militants have targeted Westerners, Jews, Indians, that they&#039;re from the Deccan region (Hyderabad is the city most associated with this region, and Hyderabad has had its share of Hindu-Muslim violence over the past 20 years.  Just one and half year ago, on May 18, 2007, the Mecca Masjid, the main Mosque of Hyderabad, was bombed and 15 or so Muslims killed by the bomb and by police gunfire), that they&#039;re attacking India because of its treatment of Muslims , etc. etc.  My point is, the terrorists themselves have spewed off a variety of motivations for the violence ranging from India&#039;s treatment of its own Muslims to random angst against Westerners.  Add to this the views of the &quot;experts&quot; and Indian government that the group is from Pakistan (anyone who knows anything about such violent attacks in India knows that political wisdom mandates that the Pakistani government be blamed first after every an attack) or that the attacks are reprisals for Indian acts in Kashmir or the quasi-genocide of Muslims in Gujarat n 2002, and it becomes obvious that we have absolutely no idea, collectively, what the motivations or sources of this violence are.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The problem with labeling this attack with broad terms used in international contexts is that the terms are often loaded and carry with them all kinds of connotations that will no doubt cloud how we investigate what happened.  The terms may force us to look at this only through the prism of a broader global struggle, for example, which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy as it causes us to overlook events such as the one in Hyderabad, or about the two bombs that went off outside a mosque during Ramadan prayers and killed 7 people in Malegaon, a town near Bombay, just  a month and a half ago, or countless other events that do not easily fit into whatever narrative is being pushed on us by the terrorists themselves, the Indian Government officials, and the press outlets, pressured as they are to be the first to deliver us a neatly packaged story.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m not saying that these attackers aren&#039;t &#039;extremist&#039; or &#039;Islamist,&#039; but know that terrorism is a method to control popular opinion, and it is strategic, and I fear that far too often we all take the bait.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Gizem&#39;s basic point that labeling the attacks as &#8220;Islamist extremist&#8221; is very problematic, though I fear that her solution for (presumably western reporters) to place things in an even &#8220;wider context&#8221; would make things even worse. </p>
<p>Easy labeling serves to displace informed and critical judgment about the causes of such violence.  Matt, it is true that these attackers have called themselves the Deccan Mujahideen, but whenever a group of Muslims has a gripe about something and wants to make its message seem much larger than itself, it seems to me only natural that it will try to tie its message into a broader ideology, especially when the press and the so-called &#8220;experts&#8221; you speak of are so willing to accept that narrative in the place of real investigation.  Over the past few days, we&#39;ve heard that the militants have targeted Westerners, Jews, Indians, that they&#39;re from the Deccan region (Hyderabad is the city most associated with this region, and Hyderabad has had its share of Hindu-Muslim violence over the past 20 years.  Just one and half year ago, on May 18, 2007, the Mecca Masjid, the main Mosque of Hyderabad, was bombed and 15 or so Muslims killed by the bomb and by police gunfire), that they&#39;re attacking India because of its treatment of Muslims , etc. etc.  My point is, the terrorists themselves have spewed off a variety of motivations for the violence ranging from India&#39;s treatment of its own Muslims to random angst against Westerners.  Add to this the views of the &#8220;experts&#8221; and Indian government that the group is from Pakistan (anyone who knows anything about such violent attacks in India knows that political wisdom mandates that the Pakistani government be blamed first after every an attack) or that the attacks are reprisals for Indian acts in Kashmir or the quasi-genocide of Muslims in Gujarat n 2002, and it becomes obvious that we have absolutely no idea, collectively, what the motivations or sources of this violence are.  </p>
<p>The problem with labeling this attack with broad terms used in international contexts is that the terms are often loaded and carry with them all kinds of connotations that will no doubt cloud how we investigate what happened.  The terms may force us to look at this only through the prism of a broader global struggle, for example, which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy as it causes us to overlook events such as the one in Hyderabad, or about the two bombs that went off outside a mosque during Ramadan prayers and killed 7 people in Malegaon, a town near Bombay, just  a month and a half ago, or countless other events that do not easily fit into whatever narrative is being pushed on us by the terrorists themselves, the Indian Government officials, and the press outlets, pressured as they are to be the first to deliver us a neatly packaged story.</p>
<p>I&#39;m not saying that these attackers aren&#39;t &#39;extremist&#39; or &#39;Islamist,&#39; but know that terrorism is a method to control popular opinion, and it is strategic, and I fear that far too often we all take the bait.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Kennard</title>
		<link>http://www.thecommentfactory.com/portrayal-of-mumbai-attackers-as-just-extremists-islamists-ignores-wider-context-803/comment-page-1/#comment-215</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Kennard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 13:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecommentfactory.com/?p=803#comment-215</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re ignoring the fact that this is how the groups define themselves, so essentially you are complaining about the media taking these groups at their word...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#39;re ignoring the fact that this is how the groups define themselves, so essentially you are complaining about the media taking these groups at their word&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Gizem</title>
		<link>http://www.thecommentfactory.com/portrayal-of-mumbai-attackers-as-just-extremists-islamists-ignores-wider-context-803/comment-page-1/#comment-214</link>
		<dc:creator>Gizem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:05:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecommentfactory.com/?p=803#comment-214</guid>
		<description>why don&#039;t you guys watch this report by Al Jazeera English. Maybe you&#039;ll understand what I&#039;m talking about more clearly:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZnbo1OJAYo&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZnbo1OJAYo&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>why don&#39;t you guys watch this report by Al Jazeera English. Maybe you&#39;ll understand what I&#39;m talking about more clearly:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZnbo1OJAYo" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZnbo1OJAYo</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mohammad</title>
		<link>http://www.thecommentfactory.com/portrayal-of-mumbai-attackers-as-just-extremists-islamists-ignores-wider-context-803/comment-page-1/#comment-213</link>
		<dc:creator>Mohammad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 11:59:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecommentfactory.com/?p=803#comment-213</guid>
		<description>I agree with Gizam. It was irresponsible of these British security officials to make such comments. To say that these violent acts were inspired by &quot;Islamic extremist ideology,” is just as idiotic as when one says that a thief  was motivated to steal because it&#039;s human nature, or when someone blames video games for their violent behavior, and not because of other reasons. It&#039;s easy, and convenient now a days to blame almost all deadly attacks on &quot;Islamic extremist ideology.&quot; &lt;br&gt;These security officials must be careful about their choice of words,  such ignorant comments are useless just like the bureaucrats that made them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Gizam. It was irresponsible of these British security officials to make such comments. To say that these violent acts were inspired by &#8220;Islamic extremist ideology,” is just as idiotic as when one says that a thief  was motivated to steal because it&#39;s human nature, or when someone blames video games for their violent behavior, and not because of other reasons. It&#39;s easy, and convenient now a days to blame almost all deadly attacks on &#8220;Islamic extremist ideology.&#8221; <br />These security officials must be careful about their choice of words,  such ignorant comments are useless just like the bureaucrats that made them.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Kennard</title>
		<link>http://www.thecommentfactory.com/portrayal-of-mumbai-attackers-as-just-extremists-islamists-ignores-wider-context-803/comment-page-1/#comment-212</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Kennard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 04:38:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecommentfactory.com/?p=803#comment-212</guid>
		<description>And you think the Kashmir conflict is purely religious? Don&#039;t be silly. This is a ridiculous debate, there&#039;s no strict point when you can classify a terrorist atrocity as being motivated by religion; every single one has so many factors, so this whole argument is really irrelevant and a bit ridiculous. It doesn&#039;t matter whether the Phalangist were motivated by Christianity, the point is they were Christian and that was part of the identity of their group, just like the groups that attacked India, whether that was their inspiration or motivation we can never know, because it&#039;s too complicated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And you think the Kashmir conflict is purely religious? Don&#39;t be silly. This is a ridiculous debate, there&#39;s no strict point when you can classify a terrorist atrocity as being motivated by religion; every single one has so many factors, so this whole argument is really irrelevant and a bit ridiculous. It doesn&#39;t matter whether the Phalangist were motivated by Christianity, the point is they were Christian and that was part of the identity of their group, just like the groups that attacked India, whether that was their inspiration or motivation we can never know, because it&#39;s too complicated.</p>
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		<title>By: zgoelman</title>
		<link>http://www.thecommentfactory.com/portrayal-of-mumbai-attackers-as-just-extremists-islamists-ignores-wider-context-803/comment-page-1/#comment-211</link>
		<dc:creator>zgoelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 21:23:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecommentfactory.com/?p=803#comment-211</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with Gizem on that example, Matt. That&#039;s a different type of &quot;Christian&quot; terrorism. The Phalange and the LF weren&#039;t motivated their readings of the New Testament. They were Maronite Lebanese in a communitarian, rather than religious, conflict.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;m with Gizem on that example, Matt. That&#39;s a different type of &#8220;Christian&#8221; terrorism. The Phalange and the LF weren&#39;t motivated their readings of the New Testament. They were Maronite Lebanese in a communitarian, rather than religious, conflict.</p>
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		<title>By: anealla</title>
		<link>http://www.thecommentfactory.com/portrayal-of-mumbai-attackers-as-just-extremists-islamists-ignores-wider-context-803/comment-page-1/#comment-210</link>
		<dc:creator>anealla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 21:21:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecommentfactory.com/?p=803#comment-210</guid>
		<description>I think most Muslims agree that terrorism is nothing to do with Islam. But, imagine if in the Muslim world, these seemingly religiously Christians launched into major city centres like Dubai or Islamabad and started killing hundreds of people under the name of Christianity. What would we call them? As much as I would like to say the media would try and come up with words which neither offend Christians, nor water down the gravity of their crimes, it is probably not that easy. Especially amid a crisis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think most Muslims agree that terrorism is nothing to do with Islam. But, imagine if in the Muslim world, these seemingly religiously Christians launched into major city centres like Dubai or Islamabad and started killing hundreds of people under the name of Christianity. What would we call them? As much as I would like to say the media would try and come up with words which neither offend Christians, nor water down the gravity of their crimes, it is probably not that easy. Especially amid a crisis.</p>
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		<title>By: Gizem</title>
		<link>http://www.thecommentfactory.com/portrayal-of-mumbai-attackers-as-just-extremists-islamists-ignores-wider-context-803/comment-page-1/#comment-209</link>
		<dc:creator>Gizem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 19:43:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecommentfactory.com/?p=803#comment-209</guid>
		<description>I think that is a different context because Sabra and Shatila took place during the Lebanese civil war which involved Christian - Muslim interreligious animosity. Religion played a big role and one of the most crucial factors behind the civil war.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that is a different context because Sabra and Shatila took place during the Lebanese civil war which involved Christian &#8211; Muslim interreligious animosity. Religion played a big role and one of the most crucial factors behind the civil war.</p>
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		<title>By: zgoelman</title>
		<link>http://www.thecommentfactory.com/portrayal-of-mumbai-attackers-as-just-extremists-islamists-ignores-wider-context-803/comment-page-1/#comment-208</link>
		<dc:creator>zgoelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 19:27:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecommentfactory.com/?p=803#comment-208</guid>
		<description>If this is about feelings, then I can&#039;t relate, because I&#039;m not a Muslim of any stripe. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;On a personal level, I might take greater distance from my co-religionists than you, but I don&#039;t wince when Baruch Goldstein is referred to as a Jewish terrorist, or when the Kakh movement is referred to as a Jewish terrorist organization.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But I can&#039;t deny the existence of a stream of Islamist extremist ideology that draws on the teachings of Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab,  Hassan al-Bana, Sayyid Qutb, and the actions of Omar &#039;Abd al-Rahman, weaving notions of jihad together with an outlook of takfir.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It seems to me that the folks doing a disservice to Islam might be the ones with the guns and bombs, not the folks with the notebooks and cameras.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If this is about feelings, then I can&#39;t relate, because I&#39;m not a Muslim of any stripe. </p>
<p>On a personal level, I might take greater distance from my co-religionists than you, but I don&#39;t wince when Baruch Goldstein is referred to as a Jewish terrorist, or when the Kakh movement is referred to as a Jewish terrorist organization.</p>
<p>But I can&#39;t deny the existence of a stream of Islamist extremist ideology that draws on the teachings of Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab,  Hassan al-Bana, Sayyid Qutb, and the actions of Omar &#39;Abd al-Rahman, weaving notions of jihad together with an outlook of takfir.</p>
<p>It seems to me that the folks doing a disservice to Islam might be the ones with the guns and bombs, not the folks with the notebooks and cameras.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Kennard</title>
		<link>http://www.thecommentfactory.com/portrayal-of-mumbai-attackers-as-just-extremists-islamists-ignores-wider-context-803/comment-page-1/#comment-207</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Kennard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 18:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecommentfactory.com/?p=803#comment-207</guid>
		<description>So what would you say about the Phalangist militias that massacred so many people at Sabra and Shatila. I&#039;m not allowed to call them Christian terrorists? That&#039;s what they were.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So what would you say about the Phalangist militias that massacred so many people at Sabra and Shatila. I&#39;m not allowed to call them Christian terrorists? That&#39;s what they were.</p>
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