Noam Chomsky on the US, Israel, and Gaza
Noam Chomsky takes on Ehud Barak and discusses Israeli-US objectives in the Gaza offensive.
By Noam Chomsky on Thursday, January 8th, 2009 - 261 words.
What He Said:
“Hamas has so far sustained a very heavy blow from us, but we have yet to achieve our objective and therefore the operation continues”.
Ehud Barak, Israeli Defense Minister, January 6th 2008.
What He Meant:
We should speak of US-Israeli objectives. It’s more than just symbolic that Gaza is being pounded by US jet bombers and helicopters, of course in violation of US law (not to speak of international humanitarian law).
Traditionally over the years, Israel has sought to crush any resistance to its programs of takeover of the parts of Palestine it regards as valuable, while eliminating any hope for the indigenous population to have a decent existence enjoying national rights. Probably one factor in US support for Israel is that this resonates so well with American history, a fact that has not gone unnoticed. The West Bank and Gaza are, of course, a single unit: Occupied Palestine. Israeli military control of the West Bank, now with the help of US-trained collaborators, is so effective that protest or resistance there is unlikely. But the occupied Gaza Strip — and there has not been a day when it hasn’t been occupied — still has a degree of independence, and there are reactions there to Israeli crimes, which continue daily. The reactions can be condemned as criminal and politically foolish, but those who offer no alternative have no moral grounds to issue such judgments, particularly those in the US who choose to be directly implicated in these ongoing crimes — by their words, their actions, or their silence.
Noam Chomsky
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would like to hear what you think of shin bet operating within gaza
Aptly put Mr.Chomsky.
Two important points he brings up. 1. This couldn't happen without the US, who just abstained on the ceasefire resolution. 2. Occupied Palestine is one country so the apartheid in the West Bank should be included in the pretexts when people discuss Hamas' rocket barrage.
Dr. Chomsky, I am a follower of your work and appreciate your perspectives despite that they sometimes are sometimes contrarian to the mainstream views held in the United States. I would like to request if it is possible to verify if, indeed, you made this post above. I suppose it is really you who made this post, and the views set forth in the post seem to be in keeping with your political positions, but is there anyway a user can know it was really you? For example, would you add a comment to this thread and answer the following question: “What experimental psychologist considers you his first mentor?” Also, condolences on the loss of your wife.
The Israelis are accustomed to interpret his role as eternal victims, when these nation & his materialistic culture are more aggressive and contaminated like no other. Gaza Strip is a sample example of a dark & deeper historical intention. Always shows a Zionist conspiracy & aggression against the Palestinian people.
Ignorance and half truths are bliss. If yuor neighborhood was being shelled with rockets what would you do? The current actione must incorporate the 5 wars and the consistent goal of pushing israel intot he sea. What do you think that means> And, if you were a PLO leader how much of the billions in aid and tax revenue would you put in a personal Swiss bank account or use for economic development?
Depends, are the people throwing rockets occupied by my country? were they launching rockets be4 my country invaded or after?
and as for the 5 wars Israel attacked Egypt twice, Lebanon once and Syria once, and is still occupying Palestine, only 1 war involved Israel being attacked in Israel.
as for Arabs trying to push Israel into the sea do you know how Israel was created? did you know Jews got 56% of the land while they were only 33%?
and about 25% of the land given to them was ALREADY inhabited by Arabs?
Maby some israelis do like the role of the eternal victams, but un like hamas israel is doing all she can to get out of that cicle and to protect her citicens. Israel is now reacting to 8 years of rockets fired daily into israely citys, and by that doing what every contry would have done 7.9 years ago.
Its true, Israel has don horrable crimes aganist the palestinians during the past 60 years, and as an israely sitizen, i (and meny more) have a great share of critisizem against some of those actions.
Gaza today is not the case. The israely goverment withdrawd all settlers and arm forces in 2005. Israel today has every right to protect her citizens from all kindes of agration.
Is hamas doing the same ? Is he trying to get his people out of harms way ? Just the opposite ! By using mosques, schooles and hospitals they are sacrificing their people. By deliberately bringing the battles into gazas streets they are sacrificing their people, By forcing citizens to the the roof tops they are sacrificing their people, By kidnaping an israely soldier and askink for an ridiculous compensation the are sacrificing their people. By doing everyting possible to make an appearance of an humanitarian crisis (bombing israely workers in merchandise gateway into gaza, not accepting gazaline) they are sacrificing their people.
It is hamas wich is doing everitihng to "win" the role of the victem. For them every innocent palestinion killed is a victory.
As for israel, i dont see whay we are moraly obliged to provid petrol, electricity and goods to an hostile goverment. Its tru, hundreds of innocents are being killed by our bombes, but who is to blame ? There is no contry in the worled wich is in a day to day battle against terror, and those hwo do fight terror do much less and kill much more innocent sitizens.
p.s. – Sorry for the bad spelling
Your spelling is beyond atrocious. Sort it out.
You clearly have no idea that despite 'withdrawing', they are still fully blocking the Gaza border, and the Palestinians are living in an open prison. They cannot engage in trade, they (the civilians) are unjustly answerable to Israeli forces everywhere, and it is a settlement withdrawal, not military presence withdrawal. How, tell me, are Palestinians supposed to live a 'relatively' normal life, with checkpoints everywhere, with raids on the border, with no free access to the outside world to trade and with a 100% clampdown on heir economy?
Can any country sit back and accept being treated like inferior human beings and less worthy of life? I think not. No country would accept it. How Israel can STILL attempt to JUSTIFY these acts, and claim innocence I, and millions, fail to comprehend. I guess the Zionist owned media definitely aids their case.
And this is just the economic side of things.
On the economic side of things, you may remember that Gaza also has a border with Egypt (NOT controlled by Israel) and that there was no blocade (but a ton of aid that was invested into weapons and propaganda instead ) after the Israeli withdrawal in 2005. The response to which was (after, naturally, another proclamation of victory) a slew of rockets and mortar fire. Also, you may recall that Gaza has the largest per capita international aid allocation and one of the highest birth rates in the world. If Gaza's government was interested in economic development rather than "resistance," we would read now about their incredible economic growth rates instead as no other locale receives so much aid and potentially so much good will that could translate into business success. But with friends like you who cheer Gazans' self-destruction, who needs enemies/
When Gaza renounces Terrorism and the destruction Of Israel, (Rejecting Hamas wouldn't hurt). Then Israel will go off the defensive Israel's security is more important to Israel than helping those that call for it's destruction. Gaza invites it's own demise. When It is peaceful, Israel will be. Israel has no choice but to continue the blockade if it wants to protect it's citizens.
It is Gaza that needs to change if they want a future. I applaud Israel for taking a strong stance against the forces surrounding her, bent on her destruction. The truth is being told. People are showing their true colors. Even with the likes of Norman Finkelstein Who truly hate Israel and the Jews. And Helen Thomas? Your so called Zionist Media? Are you kidding?
fatma hello
1. a FULL military withdrawal. get your facts checked
2.sins 2005 there are NO israely check points in gaza. again, get your facts checked
3. israel dose not want to "do bisnes" with the palestinians in gaza as long they fire rocets. we dont want to trade, we dont want to help. whay dont you accuse Ejypt ? they closed their border as well sinse the hamas took over and hanged all palestinian authority people in town square ? are they to blame too? maby you shuld ask your self whay so many arab liders (including palestinian liders) dont want hamas control in gaza ? is everyone to blame except hamas ?
4. as long as the palestinions have extremests running the show, they will not have a normal life. its no coincidence that no one wants enything to do with them (not just israel).
5. stop waching only ell jasira. its not coming close to giving the full picture.
6. i am not siting back. in my 26 years, me, my famely and my frends have done much more fore the palestinians well biing then you will ever do. where are you from ? what did you do to make thinges better ?
7. if my spelling affendes you that much, you dont have to read
The second point is a joke right?? You have got to be irreversibly brainwashed or blind,deaf and mute. What else did your government tell you? That Israel builds orphanages and hospitals for Palestine, or that Arabs learn how to kill Jews before they learn how to walk?
They do teach their children to hate and kill jews. Fact.
Muntasir hello
the second point is no joke. would you like to tell me where are there Israeli check points inside Gaza ? have you ever bin in Gaza ? did you ever talk with an paIestinion that told you difrently ? I believe you are missing the point.
and about my government, you are right. I don't believe what they tell me. I am doing my best to develop an judgmental and critical point of view. are you ? some times I support my governments actions, most times I don't.
as for the Arabs, the answer is no. of cores not. they are no different from me and you. they want the exact same things in life. what exactly did I write that made you think this way ? do you have the impression that israelis feel in such a way ? if so you are wrong. you can start by trying to lern more about us. i will be happy to tell you about my self and answer your questions. i think you will find out we aren't that difrent you and me
good day, Yoav
p.s.
about helping out, its not our job.
but just for the fun of it, ask your self where did all the trucks of aid that was brought in the first two weeks into gaza from israel disappear ? i wont tell you, check it out.
yoav…how is bnei akiva these days?
Monstris…I have no idea
I wonder if all the muslim protesters chanting "jews go back to the oven" appreciate Dr. Chomsky's well thought out analysis.
Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein. I would say, that, both of them should join Hamas, but, they already have.
Hamas is a deeply rooted social organisation in gaza..They provide a lot of badly needed sevices to the opressed gazans..you can not destroy hamas without destroying the gaza people..Perhaps that is what Israel is trying to do?..Hamas were an elected government..The israelis then used the old divide and conquer tactic, turning them against fatah..This could very easily spiralk out of control, and the reaction of the worlds leaders is shamefull..Vive Palestine
ps..Mr Chomsky is the most important intellectual alive today..
Patrick
I despise Israel's occupation of and attempted destruction of Palestine and its people, this won't end until america end military and economic aid to them. on the other hand I have absolutely no time for hamas,they are islamic fascists who murder homosexuals and treat women like second class citizens , just because they are elected doesn't mean you have to respect them, look at the Nazis.
Andy, i disagree with the whole islamic fascist label..yes they see homosexuality as wrong, and women have their place in society(im not condoning this now), but these views are derived from their religion, which is very important to them(perhaps because its all they have left)…look to our own country up until ,what thirty years ago, similar views were the norm, although perhaps not as extreme..We look at the islamic faith from a western, post 1960's perspective..they have had their way of life for 1500 years..
Ok we know what you like and don't like. You're impotent. Unable to take a stand. You said it. Hamas are Fascists. The US will stand by Israel and will not end economic and military aid to them. Helen Thomas took a stand why can't you?
Dr Chomsky contributed greatly to the development of Linguistics (but his seminal work was published in the 1950s). He is revered in this discipline for his contributions. But his contribution to political science is, at best, questionable. At worst… never mind.
we are worried. How this is going to be solved? I mean not this attack only, the conflict of the power all over the woirld? the problem is not only with israel and hamas. this will continue.
thank you mr. chomsky
replying to Comment_Maker.. you are completely ridiculous, Muslims were not the one who committed genocide against Jews,, Jews lived for thousand of years within Muslims in peace and harmony, so why it is just now that we say,,oh Muslims are facist and blood seeker and all those naming. all the European countries including Britain at some point in history committed great atrocities against Jewish people, give me one case in which Muslims did the same. we don't hate you, we are just asking for justice, live in peace and let other people live..by Justice, i mean UN resolution that Israel accept it, but never put it in action, UN resolution on Jerusalem status, on Refugee rights to return to their homes,on Israel to withdraw to 1967 borders (and not withdraw from Gaza and put settlement in the west bank), UN Security Council Resolutions 242, 338, 465, 681. If Israel claim to be a democracy, then prove it, because there is no democracy who colonize occupied territories, democracy and colonization are two opposite things.
Finally great respect to our great thinker Chomsky and to so many Jews around the world who stand for the truth and justice. Muslims and Jews could be the best allies, too bad its not the case today.
Peace and Harmony? Rather than reading propaganda, try to get acquainted with mainstream research on this topic. The work of Bernard Lewis of Princeton may be enlightening in this regard. His research also contain references to thousands of sources than may help in further education, to make this discussion facts rather than rumors based.
@ comment_maker and @Gandhi
its not about taking revenge, not even religion or racial conflict i guess and mr chomsky said a lots of time, its something related to taking power
Palestinian allows get lip service. They can be careless that whole world just shouts and protest what Israel is doing but nobody even fag arabs do anything to really help them. Israel is nothing even with the help of USA. This illusion that US can some how defend Israel is misguided. I think Israel pretty much knows its limits it cannot do more than kill children, women, and unarmed and utrained Miltants with heavy weapons designed to fight Super Powers like Russia. At the end of the day Israel is much weaker than it started. It does not matter they get full and unconditional support from US since US itself is stuck in quick sand which is pulling downwards. Unfortunately, it is stupidity on part of all who thinks hitting Gaza hard is any way going to solve problems, it will give justification to exterme elements and silence the rational players.
Great to see this ongoing discussion! Comments are free and we do not die for making them. But while we talk people die. I know a way to make peace in the Middle East. It needs coordination.
Has anybody heard of this film below. It is about controversial Norman Finkelstein. He too paid the price
for defending Palestinian rights.
http://WWW.AMERICANRADICALTHEFILM.COM
Israel, the US and the EU constructed this horror when they punished the Palestinian people for voting for the less corrupt regime in free and honest elections. The blame is on all three of them.
Prof. Chomsky’s support for Palestinians and his sharp opposition to the crimes that Israel has been committing at Palestine should be highly admired.
Indeed, what makes Noam Chomsky unique is his tireless struggle to clarify the truth and justice that nowadays have no meanings. Now, all that matters to us humans is the utmost greed, egoism, ethnocentrism, and indifference to the suffering of others.
Every where humans are worshipping rich and powerful, and all those individuals who possess them. Don’t all these seem familiar? It is in this kingdom of evil that Chomsky has been calling us to his banner of “the truth and nothing but the truth.” Unfortunately, most of us are either wrapped in the glory of our ethnic and national flags or intoxicated by our pride and ignorance.
The truth is that all that Israel has offered humanity so far are injustice, ethnic cleansing, genocide, and destruction. There are Israelis who can understand and digest this reality, and there are those who cannot because they cannot breathe outside their own tribe. It is also true that Jewish victims of the Third Reich have become the victimizers in Palestine.
Noam Chomsky invites those of us who truly believe in human dignity to gather under the banner of the truth and justice for all. People of all faiths and ethnicities, atheists, and of course Jews and Israelis should gather under the banner in Palestine and the entire planet.
Those Jews and non-Jews who truly honor the dignity of holocaust victims cannot identify themselves with the ruthless evil people that are committing genocide in Gaza. The ongoing carnage in Gaza is totally disgraceful to humanity and the holocaust victims.
Dr. Kazem Zarrabi,
Copenhagen, Denmark
What does this mean? I understand every word, but not the meaning. Logic is somehow missing (but passion is present). Gather under the banner of Palestine how? After eliminating Israel, per Hamas charter? Honor holocaust victims how — by accepting rocket fire into civilian areas without complaint? Where does worshipping wealth come in at all? How does Israel who gives equal rights to Israeli Arabs come guilty of ethnic cleanising, but Hamas that would immediately eliminate any Jew who would want to live in Gaza City under its authority and explicitly refuses Jews any rights is not guilty of that?
Hamas may have previously wanted to wipe Israel off the map, But Remember Israel came to Gaza, Hamas's town, Then Hamas formed.
"Rocket fire into civilian areas without complaint" Rockets that have started in 2001, After 30 years of Israeli settlements,and over 40 000 Palestinian homes demolished.
When you are invaded and countries like the US apply sanctions that disallow you from buying proper defense weapons what do you?
Israel does give equal rights to Arabs but thats only after they expelled over 250 000 and discriminate a daily basis(dont believe me? try applying for Israeli citizenship as a Jew, than as ans Arab and find out for yourself)
Why would Jews live in Gaza to begin with if Gazans are being ethnically cleansed so Jews can have a homeland?
Thats just a stupid analogy.
Well said professor Zarrabi..The lust for material wealth, and the denigration of human decency, and denial of the fundamental truth that all men are created equally, is what has gotten the world into the state of affairs…We are all one..We will stand or fall together..
You mean he didn't get tenure at Loyola. I huge price to pay, I see. I hope you become better familiar with the tenure process.
A general (and specific) question not directly linked to the Isreali intervention in Gaza but very pertinent to the Israel / Palestinian Conflict overall :
Does anyone remember, or remember what happened to, the Arab League proposal put forward by King Abdullah of Jordan whereby the League would agree to Formal Recognition of the State of Israel (open up embassies and so on..) in return for Israel's ending the Occupation and withdrawing to the Internationally recognized borders of 1967 as mandated by the United Nations in 1948?
– (Just that ; No insistence on the Right of Return for the refugees of 1948 which would lead to demographic imbalance – a source of disquiet for those Israelis who feel the Jewishness of the Jewish State could be undermined.) –
It contained also the provision that the status of the City of Jerusalem could be settled by negotiation afterward. Even the strategic Golan Heights could be on the table in return,eventually, for adequate and non-strategic territorial compensation elsewhere.
In the West the media seemed to bury this idea very quickly. But, of course, at that time Bush was in the White House and the Realpolitik of Ariel Sharon was in the ascendant in the Knesset.
It is this Realpolitik that seems to be guiding the Israeli Government today: we keep what we got by conquest and we haggle interminably over the fitness of the armed resistance (terrorists) to be thought worthy- ( they treat their women abominably, are an undemocratic, tribal, patriarchal people living in the Middle Ages and so on and so on, all of which may have more than a grain of truth but is strictly beside the point) – or even capable of forming themselves into a modern political entity that could be called a State
Still, if by some miracle, this Arab League proposal could be put to a World-wide vote, I am sure it would be adopted if only as a first step. Just think of what could be gained : Security for Israel, Justice for the Palestinians, and the rug pulled from under the feet of the terrorists on the one side and the dreamers of a Greater Israel -( all the land to the Jordan Valley)- on the other.
If after that the terrorist violence continued, then the world would see that Israel's enemies really were intent on her destruction, the Arab League would be shamed for making promises it couldn't back up, the Sharon Realpolitik vindicated and pro-Palestinian apologists in the West seen to be the hypocrites that the Israel Lobby has always said they were. And, moreover, in the case of renewed terrorism, direct annexation of the West Bank would be morally justified as a measure of self defense.