It is Hamas who are genocidal. Not the Israeli government.
Hamas have an intent to kill all Jews, which would constitute genocide. Israel, on the hand, seeks a peaceful two-state settlement and has no intention to murder any Palestinians.
By Ben Frenkel on Wednesday, January 21st, 2009 - 969 words.
According to the UN, genocide is defined as committing acts with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group. The acts covered include killing, causing serious bodily or mental harm, inflicting conditions of life calculated to cause those people destruction, imposing measures to prevent births, and forcibly transferring children. The acts in and of themselves do not constitute genocide. Only if the INTENT is to destroy in whole or in part a classification of people do these acts constitute genocide. War crimes may have been committed in the conflict in Gaza, and not classifying them as acts of genocide does not take away from their horror. However, not all war crime or acts of war constitute acts of genocide.
There are many examples of genocide. The war in Rwanda. The Bosnian genocide. The Jewish holocaust. Iraq’s attempt to exterminate its Kurdish population. The destruction of a people was the goal of the respective responsible leadership, and in combination with murderous actions was why their acts were deemed genocidal.
Of note, the UN did not classify the actions of the Sudan government in the Darfur conflict as acts of genocide. In that conflict 50,00-80,000 were killed and, in spite of certain ethnic groups being deliberately targeted in vast numbers, the UN report on Darfur stated “genocidal intent appears to be missing.”
Israel is demonstrably not trying to commit genocide of the Palestinian population. More than 99 percent of Gazans were not killed or injured in spite of all Gaza being well within the reach of Israels military. The West Bank has been left untouched, the Palestinians in Jordan are not in imminent threat of Israeli attack, nor are the Palestinians in the refugee camps of Israel’s neighboring countries. Israelis don’t have a constitution or charter that calls for death of all the Palestinians, and Israel’s commanders don’t state that their objective is to kill all or part the Palestinian civilian population. Even if the goal was to wipe out Hamas the Gaza conflict could not be classified as genocide. The UN’s definition of genocide does not include actions against a political group, which Hamas now is.
With a huge military advantage, if Israel’s intent were to destroy all the Palestinians in Gaza they would have done it. God forbid if Hamas had the military upper hand. The Hamas charter calls for the destruction of Israel, and the extermination of all the Jews.
“Hamas has been looking forward to implement Allah’s promise whatever time it might take. The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! This will not apply to the Gharqad, which is a Jewish tree (cited by Bukhari and Muslim).”
Hamas has an unambiguous goal of genocide, and though the Hamas leadership publicly states they are open to long-term truce with Israel (without recognition of a right to exist) at sermons and rallies Hamas rhetoric is all too clear.
“Jews are a people who cannot be trusted,” Imam Yousif al-Zahar of Hamas told the faithful. “They have been traitors to all agreements — go back to history. Their fate is their vanishing. Look what they are doing to us.”
“Oh Allah, vanquish the Jews and their supporters,” said Sheik Ahmad Bahr, acting Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council, “Oh Allah, count their numbers, and kill them all, down to the very last one. Oh Allah, show them a day of darkness. Oh Allah, who sent down His Book, the mover of the clouds, who defeated the enemies of the Prophet, defeat the Jews and the Americans, and bring us victory over them.”
Incitement to commit genocide is also an act of genocide according to the UN definition. I do not think anyone, least of all Hamas leadership, has any doubt that Hamas has a long-term goal of Jewish Israeli genocide. Their refusal to recognize Israel corroborates this. Cease-fires merely allow it rearm and then restart their Jewish genocide.
But it is not just words, Hamas acts on its genocidal goals by deliberately targeting civilians, in part because they say all Israelis are members of the military, and therefore fair game. By stating that all Israelis are targets they are stating a genocidal goal. In contrast, Israel’s government has the stated goal of a two-state solution, acknowledging the long-term of existence of Palestinians and a clearly non-genocidal long-term goal. Hamas’ very identity is tied to its eternal resistance to Jewish occupation of Palestine, which it believes includes all of Israel.
By the UN definition Hamas actions constitute acts of genocide against the Jews of Israel; huge success in destroying a people is not a pre-requisite. However, high death toll is an unofficial part of the criteria and as Hamas does not have the military capability to fulfill its genocidal goal they will not be charged with genocide. However, with an open intent to wipe out the Jews in tow, a larger, more militarily capable Hamas would be committing a Jewish genocide as I write this. At least that is what Hamas would like their followers to believe. I would be inclined, if I were an Israeli Jew, to take their word for it.
For those that cry for out for Israel to be condemned, ask yourself why Israel should do nothing and watch as a Hamas, supported by Iran and Syria, announces its intent to commit genocide at sermons and rallies, demonstrate a commitment to genocide with suicide bombings and rocket fire, while building up the means to commit genocide? UN resolutions against and ICC indictments for Hamas will not do the exterminated Jewish population of Israel much good if Hamas gets its way.
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It is Hamas who are genocidal. Not the Israeli government.
Hamas have an intent to kill all Jews, which would constitute genocide. Israel, on the hand, seeks a peaceful two-state settlement and has no intention to murder any Palestinians.
Ben I understand your point, but it's a rather academic point that is completely divorced from the reality of the situation. The terminology is not really important, but the facts are. I'm sure if you talked to Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto they would have said they wanted to kill all Germans, and the same dynamic goes with oppressed people through history, you take irrational hate to the oppressing race or tribe or whatever.
That irrational racism or whatever should not then be instrumental to allowing the destruction of the oppressed people. So whether Hamas want genocide or not (I don't think they do, they said they woudl accept 67 borders now), it's about the reality of 400 children being killed in 2 weeks, no amount of academic posturing can detract from that.
The article was meant as a rebuttal to claims that Israel's incursion into Gaza constitutes genocide, which I agree is a distraction from larger questions, but is still a notion worth dispelling. Genocide refers to very specific crime, and needs to be applied properly.
In response to the comparison to the Jews in Germany, I think it is impossible to compare any of the genocides I noted with what happened in Gaza, including the Jewish holocaust. Hamas is a political organization with a charter/constitution and is in charge of governing the Gaza area. Hamas has a stated goal in their charter of Jewish destruction. In contrast, the jews in Germany were not a political group, and did not have goal of German destruction.
Most Gazans were spared injury and death, while in the genocide examples I provided no such restraint was shown by the aggressor. The Nazis killed everyone, women and children, lining them up to slaughter.
Nor do the Israelis have an ideology that cries out for the death of Arab Palestinians as the German Nazis did of the Jews. Israel also peacefully co-exists with arab israelis (who enjoy better lifestyles than their counterparts in Iran, Syria, Egypt, Jordon, etc…), and with Jordan (>50 percent palestinian), and is targeted its agression towards Hamas in Gaza, not all Palestinians. Hamas also is an armed group responsible for attacks against Israeli citizens before Israel mounted its retaliatory war in Gaza.
Israel responded to an existential threat proven by action, and supported by the words of Hamas leadership, not paranoid conspiracy theory.
mattkennard, your obviously not Jewish. The Warsaw Ghetto revolt did not just happen. The people who fought fought a doomed fight against the SS. The conflict pitted unarmed starved people who were already doomed to die, and had nothing to lose againsst well armed SS troops. The comparison to Warsaw revolt reveals your complete and utter ignorance. Your just making noise with words, you so much appear to me as a genius parrot. And no … I do not want a cracker.
"The conflict pitted unarmed starved people who were already doomed to die, and had nothing to lose againsst well armed SS troops."
Sounds like Gaza and Israel to me.
Let's see, Gaza get's billions of dollars of aid from the UN and Arab states every year. Its a ghetto b/c that meets Arab propaganda purposes. More Jews were thrown out of Arab countries in '48 and they do not reuqire poverty assistance, like as do the Arab ghettos in Lebanon and in Egypt, and in Jordan and other Arab countries. The Warsaw Ghetto goyim like your grand parents, the apple does not fall far from the tree, looked the other way as the Nazis extirminated 1/3 of the Jewish people in about 3 years. And shmuks like you goyim today want to pretend you have moral superiority.
so ilan pappe is goyim? avi shlaim? harold pinter? noam chomsky? or this site's own enbal gross? or anybody else on masada's shit list?
meshugginah to you, you murderous apologist. what claim do you think you have on gaza apart from a few of samson's exploits? or, indeed, the rest of that bloodied land.
you'll find that iraqi jews left of their own accord, there was a 'mission' to 'rescue' ethiopian jews (tho offering an impoverished people the carrot and stick of land and a bit of cash helped), and i've never quite understood where the peruvian jews turning up in ulpan suddenly came from…there must've been a lot of travelling in them 12 tribes of judea… i know the irgun sorted out the aliyah bet … effectively illegal smuggling of persons. but hey.
before you carry on making gross inaccuracies about matt's lineage, i suggest you look up his father.
If you knew any thing about operation 'cast lead', you'd know one of the reasons armistice was so hard to acomplish was because Hamas would not agree to Israels terms. The aid you spoke of NEVER reached the people, as the west viewed Hamas as a terrorist organisation – thus the UN and other organisations stopped direct aid to Gaza. Hamas refused to agree to living under Israels embargo – they wanted to have just as much say over what came in and out of Gaza. Israel agreed to these terms for TWO days before the agreement closed down. The preverbial thorn in Israel's side was Hamas – a government party that would always stand up for its people. As such, Israel knew they had to destroy Hamas as quickly as possible while Uncle Bush is still in power.
So they decared war on the false bases that Hamas militants broke armistice through rocket fire on Israeli citizens (They didn't. Israel launced two air-strikes in early November killing several Gazans – little was reported)
Coincidently, just as Jewish sympathetic Mr.Bush leaves office and the unpredictable Mr. Obama comes in, a cease-fire is declared!
don't fire to quickly waleed. obama's chief of staff is rahm emmanuel…do look him up.
what we are witnessing with obama is probably the world's biggest diplomat. he'll try to keep everyone sweet without rocking too many boats…just deliver enough 'change' you can believe in so he gets reelected. tho he once had close links with America's Arab community, it's the Israel lobby and those that bang the drum at AIPAC that bring in the votes.
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article6619.shtm...
A reactionary how come I am not surprised. The billions in aid its not over the 23 day war pooche its annual year in year out for 60 years! When the Iraqi dictator the late beheaded Who's Insane? (play on words) invaded Iran and millions died in the conflict, are telling me that Iran was wrong to fight Iraq's invasion.
what in fuckery's name does being jewish have to do with the price of falafel? would you say the same had he been born mordechai? anyway…you little pisher, I've rewritten your post:
"The Gaza Massacre did not just happen. The people who fought fought a doomed fight against the IDF. The conflict pitted unarmed starved people who were already doomed to die, and had nothing to lose against well armed IDF troops."
Ok, "unarmed" Palestinians shooting rockets and directing mortar fire into civilian areas of a sovereign state with weapons supplied by Iran via Syria, celebrating on the streets when civilians are killed during suicide bombings and receiving more aid per capita than any other group on Earth (while sustaining one among the the largest birth rates on earth even though they are starved, by your definition) fihighting a doomed fight to eliminate a legitimate state that is, among other things, a UN member and established by the UN.
over 1,200 palestinian dead (nearly 900 women and children — of that 900, nearly 300 were children). 13 israeli (only 3 civilian).
not saying i agree with the hamas lunatics (trust me, having encountered a few in my time, you really don't want to be stuck in a situation where they are offering you 'protection' from gaza's criminal underworld), but i disagree more with the strongly funded and heavily armed israeli government.
choose your evil.
Why not wait until the reliable numbers are reported? This is Hamas' assessment — they also said that they lost 48 fighters and killed 80 Israeli soldiers , when it is well known how many and who exactly was killed in IDF (I think it is 13, with 4 killed by friendly fire). Remember "Jenin Massacre" — with a bereaved Jenin resident crying on international TV that he had lost 9 of his children, when several commissions including the UN stated that only 3 children died and the majority of the 46 (not 600!) killed were young men of 18-35? Why mindlessly repeat numbers of, as you put it, lunitics of Hamas? They are not remouned by their truthfulness.
To establish Israel, jews have used terror means, organisations like Hagana and Stern that their members later become elite security forces and Musad in the state of israel. were considered as terrorists and unlike Hamas that is weak to carry out genocide against Israel. Hagana and Stern thugs did commit a genocide against palestinians.
To establish the 3rd commonwealth Jews had to fight. We kicked ass on cowards, arabs and the grandparents of idiots like you.
I cannot believe you would use the semantics of the term genocide as a veneer for the atrocities committed in Gaza. Would a malicious crime against innocent men, women and children be any better or worse depending on its title? The fact it might not ‘technically’ be genocide is not the issue – the issue is that Israel, despite pleas from nations the world over, INCLUDING the UN, did what it always does. Ignore everyone else and go on slaughtering when, and how they please. The Hamas charter, which you say does not recognise the state of Israel and is a genocidal creed is not too different from that of Israel’s. While publicly, Israel will make no remarks of destroying the Palestinian people, it is clear from their actions that a formation of a sovereign Palestinian state is not in their interests. The destruction of Ministerial buildings, bridges and schools shows they do not wish the Palestinians to prosper. Actions speak louder than words, and the fact Israel stopped western journalists coming in to document these actions shows they agree with that statement too.
You also mentioned Hamas refuse to accept Israel. How can they recognise a regime that will only allow them to govern their own people – who none the less democratically elected them – if they adhere to the unreasonable terms of a state which has caused their constituents so much misery? Israel will only recognise a Palestinian government that is willing to lie down and accept any scraps the Israelis are willing to toss them – regardless of their peoples needs.
You mentioned Hamas see a religious right to kill Jews – have you read the Old Testament? Here is a passage from the Book of Deuteronomy, where God instructs the Israelites to take the promise land – the land of Canaan. Unfortunately, this land was full of indigenous people known as Canaanites (believed by many to be the Palestinian’s ancestors). God’s answer – according to the Old Testament was the following:
"But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth: But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee: That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the LORD your God." (Deuteronomy 20:16-18)
You see, publicly, Israel is a civilised member of the free world – a legitimately recognised government of modern society. To publicly mention such passages of genocide would put them in serious disrepute with its allies – America, Britain etc. However, it can be argued that they privately think this. They often refer to the Holy Land as their promised land by God. Many Israelis believe in the ironically Nazi-esque, elitist views of Zionism – the ethos that Jews are an elite race (God’s chosen people) and that the land of Zion is ultimately there’s. The Palestinians are then, as their ancestors were millennia ago, a mere hindrance in the way of a Jewish Paradise. 60 years of occupation, displacement and persecution have swayed Palestinian minds to thoughts of wiping out those who imposed these miseries on them. I ask you, what is Israel’s excuse?
An offended religious goy oo vey! Lions tigers and bears oo vey! Tell me o self righteous one when the non Arab Turks ruled the middle east where were the "palestinian people" then? Tell me what was the capital of Palestine? And please inform us about Palestinian currency/money? Self righteous morally superior air heads oo vey!
I confess I am a bit perplexed by this argument: "Israel is demonstrably not trying to commit genocide of the Palestinian population. More than 99 percent of Gazans were not killed or injured in spite of all Gaza being well within the reach of Israels military." Aside from the fact that few people are arguing that the Gaza attack alone constitutes accomplished genocide, there was certainly an attempt to destroy "in part" the population of Gaza. Israel was quite explicit in redefining the category of civilian so thoroughly as to despoil it. Anyone connected in any sense with Hamas, the organisation (a mass organisation deeply rooted in the population of Gaza with involvement in the delivery of social services even long before it was the government) rather than just the military wing, was deemed a target. Moreover, the accounts of this assault are absolutely teeming with examples of deliberate, sadistic violence against civilians. This included not only firing white phosphorus on civilian targets, not only shelling schools and bombing hospitals, and not only firing at ambulances and medics. Nor does it just include the deliberate shelling of civilian buildings in order to 'evacuate' them (as Amira Hass' apparently censored report for Ha'aretz attests), or the obstruction of humanitarian aid when IDF troops knew there to be dying, starving children at the feet of deceased mothers. It includes such barbaric acts as the rounding up of over 100 civilians into one building, and the relentless shelling of that building, which lasted for hours. This kind of depravity could not have been carried out with the official sanction of the Israeli state, and it oozes with genocidal intent. Moreover, we can also say with certainty that many Israeli soldiers regard their aims as genocidal. The graffiti they left ("Arabs 1948-2009", "Arabs must die", "1 down 999,999 to go" etc) says a great deal about their perceptions of their role, and what they want Palestinians and the rest of the world to understand.
What we have seen since 1948 is the attempt to physically destroy the Palestinians as an entity capable of resisting the Zionist colonisation, and subsequent usurpation of Palestinian resources. In first ethnically cleansing 700,000 people (on a conservative estimate), then colonising the conquered Palestinian territories after 1967, the Zionist project has repeatedly been incriminated by its attempt to destroy the forms of life that sustain Palestinian existence. At times gradually, and at other times suddenly and with brute force, Palestinians have been attacked, repressed, killed, driven from their homes, and had their livelihoods and property expropriated. Those who try to resist that prospect have been gunned down, bombed, kidnapped and tortured (torture is not a method that Israel spares children, by the way). After the massacres in Lebanon in 1982, Israel won the effective capitulation of the PLO, at that time the main resistance force. By 1987, the PLO was mainly a spent force, and the main organisation to benefit from the First Intifada was the new Hamas organisation, a radicalised layer of the otherwise conservative and quietist Muslim Brotherhood. Hamas has, as a result of its religious orientation, always interpreted its struggle as part of a defensive war against Christianity and Judaism. As a consequence of this, it allowed an unacceptable antisemitism to be a part of its language. This has been challenged by its own members, and senior Hamas figures such as Khalid Mish'al and Bassem Naim are openly declaring that the language of antisemitism is nonsense and that religion is not the basis of their struggle. There is no sense in which Hamas, however flawed it is, is committed to genocide against the Jews. It has even repeatedly offered ceasefires to Israel, based on a two-state settlement (which Israel ignores) and – unlike Israel – when such accords are reached, Hamas keeps to them. Hardly an indication of genocidal intent. As to the methods of Hamas, you may not appreciate violence against civilians (even such pathetic violence as the rockets aimed at Sderot), but its use of terror is part of a disciplined military response to Israeli aggression, not a programme of genocide. And it is hardly the only Palestinian organisation to use such means. Incidentally, if you think that violence against civilians proves a genocidal project, then you must think that Israel is genocidal because it targets civilians to a far greater degree, a fact extensively catalogued by human rights organisations such as B'Tselem. Sadly not the only point at which you are hopelessly contradicting your own argument.
How can any one argue with that? Well put Richard.
Not so well put and incorrect. But what do facts matter? Your mind is made up. Remember the (UN investigaed" "Jenin Massacre."
Another reactionary. Pooche by your definition all wars are genocide! The name of the game in a war is to kill the enemy in case your not aware of that. A 1300 people killed half of them hamas military and the pooches bark genocide slaughter boo hoo hoo hoo. Then the Iranian poodles who have become more Arab than their Arab conquorers proclaim Israel heeds the Hamas Ultimatum. Hamas is victorious in the war blah blah blah. Puppies make up your minds, you can't have it both ways even though you try. In Africa right now Arabs are murdering and slaughtering 100s of thousands of Africans, yet on this subject you dogs seemed to have lost your bark. Self righteous hippocrits how come I'm not surprised? Muslims …. cowards the one term defines the other. Israel just spanked the bottems of the Arabs till their nose bleed. Lebanon the victors of the 2006 war how come they did not get involved in this conflict. May Israel lose all its wars like it did the last 2.
Peace is the answer.
"all we are saying is give peace a chance" nice tune, but that's about as far as it goes. Poochie look up "people's war" on google. The Palestinians are employing these very same strategies just so people like you can piusly and self righteously proclaim: Peace is the answer!
Its not "peace" that this conflict requires but a "political settlement" that all the parties to the conflict can live with. Viewed from this angle things get sticky and complicated real quick.
wow… what a load of rubbish!!
Have you ever heard anyone apply Deuteronomy to the Palestinians? I haven't…
So it's like the equivalent of manslaughter genocide is what you're saying? Or am I confused?
"An offended religious goy oo vey!" yo, Moshe: go fuck yourself.
If Jesus came back tomorrow (which He won't because He's dead because God doesn't exist) he'd be so, so pissed at the descendants of the Zealots he left behind. Actually, in contrast to what I usually say, I hope there is a God, so that such a thing might happen and scare you positively shitless. Naturally, though, Jesus in his infinite mercy and boundless love would forgive all transgressions against His Father's commandments. Except for people who voted for Nader. Straight to the eternal furnace for them.
Homemade missiles have been flying into civilian ereas and cities since Hamas got elected. Actions have their equal and opposite reactions. Reactionaries like yourself condemn the fence/wall that Israel built as a defence against suicide bombings. It take 2 to make a fight but all you bozo reactionaries can denounce is one side of the blows. Honey child Israel gives as good as it gets. Sending rockets into Sderot and other cities that's not a crime to you b/c your committed to justifying any Arab action as righteous and any Israeli/zionist response as wicked. Pathetic black and white non thinkers, pooches there's allot of colors in the spectrum of the rainbow and this conflict is a very complicated conflict.
Lastly Pooche reactionary, you know nothing about Bush and US interests other than what you've read in a newspaper. Do a little homework before you preach from your soap box. Nations don't have friends but rather interests. Lastly take a map of the middle east look at all those Arab and muslim countries and the speck of land called Israel. 60% of the Jewish state is uninhabited due to a harsh dessert climate. Reactionary idiots they as pathetic as Iranian lapdogs who have embrace the religion of a foreign conquorer and are now more Arab than Arabs. Persia has a great history but Iranians today have no shame.
sderot's a shithole. fact. it's populated with the poor and those who would be worse off if they were back in their country of origin if they hadn't made aliyah.
this conflict isn't complicated moshe…you seem to have all the answers.
I have answers b/c unlike you I live here. Your just some self appointed idiot who speaks from abroad and pretends you know what your talking about. Sderot is the home of Jews who choose to live there. They choose to live there regardless of years of rocket attacks, they choose to live there because they love that place. Your arrogance reminds me of a man who says the wife of another man is ugly. Arrogant dumbass.
Monstris he's preach'n about Obama now. O arrogant drum give us your empty predictions and make it loud.
Gazans…so they chose to live there too?
Or do you, my dear sabra, believe Arabs just left their houses in 1948 because they got bored of them?
pooche what I beieve doesn't mean squat. But there existed 1st hand newspaper during these times and these papers still exist in micro-fitsh. Historians who lived and experienced those very days have recorded the events unto posterity. Frankly I could not give a rats' ass whether you believe this 1st hand evidence or not. Its obvious all your vast knowledge on this subject comes from contempory information sources like the internet. A flunky scholar like yourself would know how to conduct research even if it was a dog biting your rumpous ass.
"This conflict isn't complicated". Tsk tsk tsk if only the leaders of the world knew that right here and now there lives a pompous arrogant ass with a Jesus self esteem, that he could solve all the world's problems by simply walking on the water. Nuu jesus son of god take away the sins of the world. It was bullshit then as now! This fight involves lots and lots of players and nations and states and money and weapons and oil and prestige. The EU is tired of its post ww2 2nd class status; it wants desparately to return unto the position it once held way back in the 19th century when it sat supreme the 1st among equals. Where is imperial whims could slaughter natives without any consequences as did the 2nd German empire, and your soul mate the king of Belgium. Where the British squashed unpleasant "native" revolts by instituting the concentration camps. Uh Oh 4 syllable word that's to big for your brain to handle
"They are not remouned by their truthfulness."
…nor, indeed, are the IDF. For more reasons than my job is worth.