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	<title>Comments on: Anti-Israeli polemics are propaganda, not scholarship</title>
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	<link>http://www.thecommentfactory.com/anti-israeli-polemics-are-propaganda-not-scholarship-1386</link>
	<description>Join And Start Writing Today!</description>
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		<title>By: Jess</title>
		<link>http://www.thecommentfactory.com/anti-israeli-polemics-are-propaganda-not-scholarship-1386/comment-page-1#comment-873</link>
		<dc:creator>Jess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 10:09:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecommentfactory.com/?p=1386#comment-873</guid>
		<description>Hey man, like the previous guy mentioned, go out of your way to look up International Law. The World Court ruled in 2004 that the settlements, occupation, and walls are illegal. It&#039;s the highest and most important body of justice in the world.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey man, like the previous guy mentioned, go out of your way to look up International Law. The World Court ruled in 2004 that the settlements, occupation, and walls are illegal. It&#039;s the highest and most important body of justice in the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Monstris</title>
		<link>http://www.thecommentfactory.com/anti-israeli-polemics-are-propaganda-not-scholarship-1386/comment-page-1#comment-785</link>
		<dc:creator>Monstris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 12:45:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecommentfactory.com/?p=1386#comment-785</guid>
		<description>Operation Cast Lead. Cast Lead = dreidel, sevivon, that spinning top kiddies play with at Hannukah. Something about the bombardment being child&#039;s play? Taking away the innocence of a childhood memory and imbuing it with blood? Or am I reading too much into this cyclical slaughter?  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Operation Cast Lead. Cast Lead = dreidel, sevivon, that spinning top kiddies play with at Hannukah. Something about the bombardment being child&#039;s play? Taking away the innocence of a childhood memory and imbuing it with blood? Or am I reading too much into this cyclical slaughter?</p>
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		<title>By: billy</title>
		<link>http://www.thecommentfactory.com/anti-israeli-polemics-are-propaganda-not-scholarship-1386/comment-page-1#comment-782</link>
		<dc:creator>billy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:40:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecommentfactory.com/?p=1386#comment-782</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know whether you are really 21, but you certainly write and theorise like a 21 year old.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#039;t know whether you are really 21, but you certainly write and theorise like a 21 year old.</p>
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		<title>By: mattkennard</title>
		<link>http://www.thecommentfactory.com/anti-israeli-polemics-are-propaganda-not-scholarship-1386/comment-page-1#comment-793</link>
		<dc:creator>mattkennard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 08:04:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecommentfactory.com/?p=1386#comment-793</guid>
		<description>I agree with Muntasir. I&#039;d say that Chomsky and Finkelstein and others are the objects of constant attacks, but they are outside the ideological spectrum in the US and completely ignored except by alternative media. That&#039;s a disgrace and a reason why the debate in the US is so warped.  
 
I just want to make a few points about this article, as it makes a lot of claims, some of which I think are wrong, and leaving falsehoods unchallenged is wrong.  
 
Firstly, by your definition of &quot;Zionism&quot;, that Israel has a right to exist on 1967 borders, then you agree with Chomsky and Finkelstein and you&#039;re arguing against a straw man. I also happen to agree that it should be on 1967 borders. It&#039;s Israel who is unilaterally occupying the West Bank and building the wall which steals a large percentage of the land. So it is Israel who is anti-Zionist by your own definition, and Finkelstein and Chomsky who are Zionists.  
 
2. And I don&#039;t know where you think someone said that Zionism wasn&#039;t a multifaceted movement. Chomsky was in Zionist groups as a young man, one&#039;s that advocated a binational state for Jews and Arabs. What we see now is sometimes called neo-Zionism which is a racist, fundamentalist religious ideology (believed by Sharon amongst others) that claims Eretz Israel is rightly for the Jews -- that includes the West Bank. 
 
3. And you can&#039;t criticize Chomsky for the format of What They Mean, I formulated it and Chomsky&#039;s answer is pretty much stand-alone, you don&#039;t need Barak&#039;s quote, but I did it to give some context. 
 
4. Your definition of occupation is taken from dictionary.com, you should look at international law. Israel controls all of Gaza&#039;s borders, it controls movement in and out, it controls its coast, it controls its energy supply, it controls its airspace, it controls its water supply... Gaza has always been under occupation, you need to get a better definition of occupation. 
 
5. Ha&#039;aretz is the most influential paper for the &quot;intellectual classes&quot;, readership numbers are irrelevant. In the UK the Sun sells the most, but its influence on intellectual classes is close to zero.  
 
6. Secret plans hatched by the government show its intentions. This wasn&#039;t a defensive plan hatched, it was an offensive. Even if it wasn&#039;t done, it wasn&#039;t outside the moral parameters of its authors, which is instructive.  
 
7. No-one has used the words in many of your quotes about &quot;evil Zionist conspiracy&quot; so it&#039;s hard to argue with them because you made them up. Having a analytical framework to look at state action is not a bad way to look at the world; Chomsky and Finkelstein distrust what the Israeli government and its propaganda organs say because 99% of the time they are lying and putting a false image out to the world. That&#039;s why their analysis is much more in touch with reality than 90% of the US media.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Muntasir. I&#039;d say that Chomsky and Finkelstein and others are the objects of constant attacks, but they are outside the ideological spectrum in the US and completely ignored except by alternative media. That&#039;s a disgrace and a reason why the debate in the US is so warped.  </p>
<p>I just want to make a few points about this article, as it makes a lot of claims, some of which I think are wrong, and leaving falsehoods unchallenged is wrong.  </p>
<p>Firstly, by your definition of &quot;Zionism&quot;, that Israel has a right to exist on 1967 borders, then you agree with Chomsky and Finkelstein and you&#039;re arguing against a straw man. I also happen to agree that it should be on 1967 borders. It&#039;s Israel who is unilaterally occupying the West Bank and building the wall which steals a large percentage of the land. So it is Israel who is anti-Zionist by your own definition, and Finkelstein and Chomsky who are Zionists.  </p>
<p>2. And I don&#039;t know where you think someone said that Zionism wasn&#039;t a multifaceted movement. Chomsky was in Zionist groups as a young man, one&#039;s that advocated a binational state for Jews and Arabs. What we see now is sometimes called neo-Zionism which is a racist, fundamentalist religious ideology (believed by Sharon amongst others) that claims Eretz Israel is rightly for the Jews &#8212; that includes the West Bank. </p>
<p>3. And you can&#039;t criticize Chomsky for the format of What They Mean, I formulated it and Chomsky&#039;s answer is pretty much stand-alone, you don&#039;t need Barak&#039;s quote, but I did it to give some context. </p>
<p>4. Your definition of occupation is taken from dictionary.com, you should look at international law. Israel controls all of Gaza&#039;s borders, it controls movement in and out, it controls its coast, it controls its energy supply, it controls its airspace, it controls its water supply&#8230; Gaza has always been under occupation, you need to get a better definition of occupation. </p>
<p>5. Ha&#039;aretz is the most influential paper for the &quot;intellectual classes&quot;, readership numbers are irrelevant. In the UK the Sun sells the most, but its influence on intellectual classes is close to zero.  </p>
<p>6. Secret plans hatched by the government show its intentions. This wasn&#039;t a defensive plan hatched, it was an offensive. Even if it wasn&#039;t done, it wasn&#039;t outside the moral parameters of its authors, which is instructive.  </p>
<p>7. No-one has used the words in many of your quotes about &quot;evil Zionist conspiracy&quot; so it&#039;s hard to argue with them because you made them up. Having a analytical framework to look at state action is not a bad way to look at the world; Chomsky and Finkelstein distrust what the Israeli government and its propaganda organs say because 99% of the time they are lying and putting a false image out to the world. That&#039;s why their analysis is much more in touch with reality than 90% of the US media.</p>
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		<title>By: Muntasir</title>
		<link>http://www.thecommentfactory.com/anti-israeli-polemics-are-propaganda-not-scholarship-1386/comment-page-1#comment-792</link>
		<dc:creator>Muntasir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 07:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I really wish someone WAS doing Anti-Zionist propaganda. You wouldn&#039;t need to lie to do it. Zionism is racism. It certainly is not Judaism, which dictates there should not be a state of Israel until the coming of the Messiah. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really wish someone WAS doing Anti-Zionist propaganda. You wouldn&#039;t need to lie to do it. Zionism is racism. It certainly is not Judaism, which dictates there should not be a state of Israel until the coming of the Messiah.</p>
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		<title>By: Omri</title>
		<link>http://www.thecommentfactory.com/anti-israeli-polemics-are-propaganda-not-scholarship-1386/comment-page-1#comment-790</link>
		<dc:creator>Omri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 06:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecommentfactory.com/?p=1386#comment-790</guid>
		<description>hmm am i supposed to take offense to that? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hmm am i supposed to take offense to that?</p>
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